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Gwendolyn WehageFrank JenkinsWhen nearly every "pastor" who is seen as the leader has been trained in the seminaries where they teach cultural church practices you will find most of them following what they were taught, much of it based on effectiveness more than scripture. And, today the seminaries are teaching acceptance of cultic practices not realizing they are counter to the Word of God.
Also when Paul said; "all Cretans are lazy gluttons he was reflecting what the culture was like. Probably not every single Cretan was lazy and gluttonous, but since most were God warned the people about the culture as a whole.
Generalizations are understood to be just that "generalizations" not all-inclusive.
When we accept the wrong on the basis that "not all are like that" then we are giving a pass to the wrong things in a culture, allowing it to grow only brings more wrong things.
The entire one-man pastor system is against the instruction of God given by Paul in the new testament. Any time a system violates the directions of God it does not matter if it is "working out" which we see has not worked, then the system grows more intensely unbiblical and disobedient.
God gave us the criteria for an elder and that there should be a plurality of leadership, we need not do our own thing, thinking we can do better than God commanded.
Man always wants a leader they can see rather than trusting God, the Holy Spirit they cannot see.
Ed KassarFrank Jenkins I think the main point is worship.
How do people actually worship?
"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13:15) However with the one man ministry every aspect of true Christian worship is missing.
The hymns are chosen before hand.
The chosen leaders are all who can give praise.
The Holy Spirit is silenced under the thoughts of the leaders.
Yes there are men and women who are gifted, yet those gifts also are given to the members of the Church as well. However gifts need to be applied in the proper place. Women are instructed to be quite in the Church, however children ministry, women's groups and woman Bible studies,... are places they can use those gifts. If not hindered under the clergy laity system as normal.
The Bible and its teaching are for all men and women to understand and walk in the soundness of the Word of GOD, not just a few.
The clergy laity system has destroyed these Godly principles shown in Scripture.
Ed KassarFrank Jenkins brother I'm not disagreeing with you about gifted people. Yet I would suggest letting the Holy Spirit do HIS job in the Body of believers.
"But when *he* is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming.He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine and shall announce [it] to you. All things that the Father has are mine; on account of this I have said that he receives of mine and shall announce [it] to you."
(John 16:13-15)
Ed Kassar"And to the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot; I would thou wert cold or hot. Thus because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and am grown rich, and have need of nothing, and knowest not that thou art the wretched and the miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked; I counsel thee to buy of me gold purified by fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white garments, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not be made manifest; and eye-salve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see. I rebuke and discipline as many as I love; be zealous therefore and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking; if any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me. He that overcomes, to him will I give to sit with me in my throne; as I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne.He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.(Rev 3:14-22)
"I am about to spue thee out of my mouth." The way the church makes Jesus feel, Nauseous.
HE stands at the door. What a harrorable state for the church to be in. Jesus is not in it but outside waiting for a open door.
This is why, I'm concerned.
Ed KassarFrank Jenkins I highly doubt revival.
Many assume that we are living before the time of the "spanking up" rapture. What we find before the LORDS return is a departure from the truth, and the true Church. Yes religion may flourish as we find that there will be a one world religion upcoming as the antichrist appears. So I can only assume that there will be many false faith appearing in days to come.
Frank JenkinsEd Kassar Again that is not the case in all churches!
Hyms and songs of worship all Glorify God and uplift the soul!
Spontaneus Worship is also needed!
There are many spirit filled churches!
But in the case of Women they are according to Apostle Paul are not to Teach or assurp athority over men!
But they are a Blessed in Womens Ministries and Childrens Ministry God always has a place for Spiritual Women!
GODS Church is Still flourishing and I believe Revival is coming!
Frank JenkinsActive
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Gwendolyn WehageFrank Jenkins The things you describe are human traditions you were accustomed to, this does not make them alright merely because you like them or they seem right. We must always defer to the Scriptures asking the Holy Spirit to guide our thinking.
Mark 7:13 "13 Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”
Many years ago I began praying that God would show me only truth. That He would open my eyes to the humanistic traditions that were in the church so that I would be obedient to Him. It was astounding all the things He revealed to me through His Word and the Holy Spirit that were counter to the teachings of Christ. Anyone who prays for His truth will find themselves counter to the Christian culture of our day.
Frank JenkinsEd Kassar I Understand your Concerns but God will Guide each individual that seeks him in the spirit and puts the word of God close to his Heart!
The Church is US. The building is a place to Gather share ,Pray , Hear Gods word and Worship !
It is each Person who must Seek Gods Truth and Give Praise and Worship to God!
The Apostles Admonished Churches and Praised followers in the Church!
We must Not fixate on Organizations as much as Individuals being Deciples of Christ each one being an Example in our Walks and in Churches we attend!
We as Deciples answer to Christ and must Focus on His Message!
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Gwendolyn WehageThe moment we give a pass to one tradition it will lead to a mindset of setting aside God's Word for other traditions that work against God and the gospel.
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Gwendolyn WehageEd Kassar Amen!!!
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Gwendolyn WehageFrank Jenkins God will never guide a believer to do anything against His own Word. The Holy Spirit is the very essence of His Own Word, He will always lead the believer to do His Will as instructed in the word of God. There is no new revelation for man to draw from, it is all in the Bible and clearly laid out for us to follow.
John 14:15 "15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever."
John 16:13-14 "13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.…"
The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, when men lead us they are sharing the Word of God as given in the Bible, not their own ideas or methods, but the truth of God's Word. Accepting man's way thinking it can be as good as the Scripture is adding to the Scriptures.
Proverbs 30:6
"Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar."
To use our own traditions to worship God is disobedience, it doesn't matter if they appear to work well, if they are disobedience then they are trusting in man not God.
